This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Thad Miller, Founder, CEO, and Dental Transition Advisor of DDSmatch. Thad is a nationally recognized dental industry leader with more than 30 years of experience helping dentists navigate practice ownership transitions. Through DDSmatch, he has helped facilitate over $1 billion in practice sales while building one of the largest dental transition networks in the country.

In this episode, Thad shares his journey from dental industry veteran to founder of DDSmatch. He discusses why successful practice transitions require much more than finding a buyer. Thad explores the importance of early planning, understanding all available transition options, evaluating DSO and private buyer opportunities, maintaining clean financial records, building trust throughout the process, and creating a legacy-focused transition to  benefit sellers, buyers, teams, and patients alike.

To learn more about Thad Miller and DDSmatch, visit http://www.ddsmatch.com or listen to his podcast, MATCHplay, on all streaming platforms.

Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Bumper  

Welcome to the Dental Amigos podcast with Dr Paul Goodman and attorney Rob Montgomery, taking you behind the scenes of the dental business world, all the things you didn't learn in dental school, but wish you had Rob is not a dentist, and Paul is not a lawyer, but since Rob is a lawyer, we need to tell you that this podcast is for informational purposes only and shouldn't be considered legal advice. Listening to this podcast does not and will not create an attorney client relationship, as is always the case. You should formally consult with legal counsel before proceeding with any legal matter. Learn more about the Dental Amigos at www.thedentalamigos.com. And now here are the Dental Amigos.

Rob Montgomery

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Dental Amigos Podcast. I'm Rob Montgomery, and I'm joined, as always, by the head nacho himself, Dr. Paul Goodman.

Paul Goodman

Great to be here, Rob.

Rob Montgomery

Paul, it's good to be with you in the room, as always. Today, we've got an awesome guest, part of the Dental Nachos Network universe, right?

Paul Goodman

From the original time.

Rob Montgomery

It's Dr. Ann Miller, who is a former practice owner and consultant now. And Dr. Ann Miller knows first thing that being a great dentist doesn't automatically mean feeling confident as a business owner. After graduating from Kenyon College in 1992 and earning her dental degree from Virginia Commonwealth University in 1996, she built her own startup dental practice from the ground up, and then for more than 25 years, she navigated the highs and lows of ownership, team challenges, financial decisions, growth, burnout, and everything in between. And in September of 2023, Ann stepped away from ownership and launched her coaching business. Just two months later, the Dental Wayfinder, and today she helps dentists stop feeling overwhelmed and start leading their practices with clarity, confidence, and purpose. Ann doesn't believe in one-size-fits-all formulas because no two practices or practice owners are the same. We're excited to have Ann with us today. And now, without further ado, welcome Amiga, and thanks for being on the show.

Ann Miller

Thank you both for having me.

Paul Goodman

Excited to talk with you, Ann. And I know we have a hard-hitting question to start. If we were in your town, you could tell us where where you live, or tell listeners, and we were getting nachos. Where would you take us, and what is your favorite topping?

Ann Miller

Oh, by all means, we would go to Montezuma, and I personally like just good guacamole.

Paul Goodman

I'm a guaca fan myself. I like that.

Rob Montgomery

We're in the Lancaster area, right? Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Ann Miller

Well, I'm actually in Waynesboro, Pennsylvania. So South Central.

Rob Montgomery

Okay, South Central. Montezuma's to check out. One day we're Central Pennsylvania.

Paul Goodman

We're going to rent a rent a bus and go on all these a tour, just nachos.

Rob Montgomery

Would be fun.

Paul Goodman

Yeah, yeah, it would be.

Rob Montgomery

So you know, and Ann, thanks for for for joining us today. And I'm it's always fun for for me to have guests on the podcast that we've actually met in person, and we were chatting before we got on the show that we've both been at one of Paul's Nacho events together over the years, and you know I think you know in just knowing what I know about your consulting business, I think that it's it's great that you like to say that your real passion is helping young dentists step confidently into ownership the right way, and and that resonates for me because that's really what we do in our firm here too. That we're helping people, for the most part, transitioning into practice ownership. We do some things with sellers, and other folks that are practice owners with associate agreements and everything, but our our passion, like yours, is is helping people become owners. And so, with the experience that you had doing your startup and now in your consulting world, what are some things that you like to make sure that all of your coaching clients know and understand? What are some mindsets, some tips, some things that you feel that are valuable that they may not know without you bringing that to them.

Ann Miller

I don't know that I have any like major hurrah moments or ideas, but it's just the basics. You know, so much of what we do, dentistry we're taught, business we're not taught, and then when a young owner buys their practice, they're trying to be that clinician and dentist plus be an owner. So they have two careers going on at once, and they have so much up in their head. And with my new clients and especially new owners, I try so hard to get them to actually write down what they do and what they want, because that brings clarity to the team. If the team can know exactly what is expected of them from the doctor, it's going to make their lives so much easier, and so, yes, I got some pushback because I'm like, do you write down all your policies and do you have systems? And I think young dentists are kind of afraid to come in and I don't want to say put their foot down, but just you know say this is how I do it. They they want to be nice to their team and the team wants you to be nice, but they also want to know what's expected of them and have clarity with that.

Rob Montgomery

Why do you think people do that? What's sort of the personality trait of somebody that is reluctant to communicate definitively like that with their team?

Ann Miller

I think when they become an owner, or boss, they want everybody to like them, and they want to be everybody's friends. And you want to be nice, and you want to be cordial. But you know, personally, it was hard because they're your family at work, but you also have to have a little bit of a boundary there that you're the boss too. And I think so much of the time, new owners are afraid to upset their staff, and times let the staff walk over them in a sense. And it's like parenting, you know, you've got to put some rules down and some expectations, just like you do with your kids.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah. So I imagine it'd be challenging too, especially if you have a young dentist that's buying a practice from an older retiring dentist that maybe they're inheriting people that have worked in this practice for 25, or 30 years. That's a tricky thing to manage because obviously you are even though you're the boss. You're the new. You're the new guy on the block, right? And so that is a challenge, I'd imagine, to to navigate that that dynamic.

Ann Miller

It's especially a challenge. I've had a couple of clients where retiring or older doc has sold, but has stayed on as an associate for a little bit, and that causes a lot of grease because the team is used to listening to older docs and not listening to the actual new owner, and that can cause issues too.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, we see that a lot.

Ann Miller

I feel so much of it needs to be the communication. The new dentist needs to know how and learn how to communicate with their team.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, and I think a lot of people fall into the trap where they think, and it's like an insecurity. I want the seller to stay on and to be there a lot, and in a lot of ways, that that really frustrates your ability to develop positive relationships with the team, because as you said, this person that is you know the old owner that everybody feels committed to and has worked for all these years is still in the picture. So how do you? It's hard to project as the leader if the if the old leader is still the leader and that the torch has not been passed, and and I think sometimes people will ask, hey, I wanted to keep them on, but they don't really have much to do. They just want them to stand around, which is even worse. You know, talk about confusion to the patients and the staff. Like, what's what's Dr. Seller doing over there? Well, it looks like he's making some more coffee. You know, like there's no-is there work for that person to do? Are they are they actually allowing you to step up and and take control of the practice? Because otherwise, they're not really adding value. And I feel like a lot of times people fall into that trap.

Paul Goodman

I agree.

Rob Montgomery

Where and I think, and I'm not going to say that. You know, I don't want to sound judgmental, but if you need help or you want coaching to as to how to run a dental office, the person you bought the practice from may not be the most qualified person to give you the advice, right? You know, and so maybe it's better to get let them ride off into the sunset, and then if you feel like you need help, well, you hire a coach or a consultant to help you, and that their job is to provide this advice.

Paul Goodman

I agree.

Ann Miller

And just because that person maybe ran a successful practice, but it was their way of running it, and that doesn't mean as a new owner that's your way of doing it, right?

Rob Montgomery

Right.

Ann Miller

And so you have to develop, and that's what I like to do: is to try to help these new young owners develop what what is their leadership style, what is it that they want, and what is their ideal, so that we can then go that path. And it doesn't mean it's the old dentist's way of doing it.

Paul Goodman

I liked it, and I wanted to say maybe this is on brand since I know what you're doing. But many of my lectures, I had a picture of my oldest when she was three, in a ballerina costume, screaming, doing this. I said, having a dental practice is like having a three-year-old child that never grows up, and I think there's nothing more real than that, because when you have a three-year-old, you get a lot of compliments from people on the streets of Philadelphia. Rob, oh, look at you and your three-year-old—they don't know the knockdown, drag-out fight that you had to get them into their ballerina costume. And I think that that example is just so true because I say it's 50% awesome, 50% annoying, and 100% exhausting. So, Ann, I think that the way reason I want to ask this question is, what do you think that like you know you work with these? Let's just talk about the new owner you're working with, and they're like, "I'm going to hire you, Ann, to help me." And what is their like biggest pain point with leadership? Like, we talk about oh, be a good leader, right? But the next thing, like, is it something they didn't know they even had to develop? Is it you know? To me, I feel like they don't talk about this in dental school at all. But like, if you just think of a real like life case example with leadership, when they're coming to you, what is there to use a dental school term? Chief complaint.

Ann Miller

I would say they they think they're one type of leader, but deep down, they're another type of leader. So if you kind of do a personality test and figure out what truly what's their leadership style, and sometimes that doesn't go with being a dental in a dental office and being an owner. I had one guy who doesn't like conflict, didn't want, you know, he's I'm more laissez-faire type. Well, he was getting run over by the office staff. They wouldn't show up on time. They wouldn't, you know, come to office meetings. And I said, okay, you think you're this type of leader, but you really to get what you need, you need to be this type of leader at work at least, so we develop that. We talk a lot about what kind of leadership skills do you need in your office to have it run the way you want it to run.

Paul Goodman

I think that's a core point. I might make a joke that I think Rob will get. Um, well, that dentist who doesn't like conflict—that's like not liking Eagles fans and going to Lincoln Financial Field every Sunday. You're going to have to learn how to deal with it, okay? Because I've used this example many times about dentistry when I'm giving people insight, and one of the reasons I think dentists struggle is not liking conflict is like becoming a firefighter and not wanting to fight fires. But there's more conflict than there is fires, right? So imagine you went to firefighting school, and then they said there's a fire one day, and you said, "Well, this isn't what I signed up for, right? And they just don't tell you in dental school, Rob. And I know, and I know through osmosis through your clients. I'm not pretending like you, but like conflict is the name of the game in the operatory, outside the operatory, with vacation schedules. With this, it's constant, constant conflict.

Ann Miller

In dental school, we're taught the ideal. You know, what's the ideal to do for a mouth? What happens when the patient doesn't want to do that or can't afford to do that? So we have conflict all the time, and we need to figure out how to nicely deal with some of that conflict, and it doesn't mean you have to be mean and rude. But again, that's stuff that we're not taught in dental school to sometimes be a human person, you know, a human being.

Paul Goodman

It's also the remember Rob and Ann they had that thing like the buck stops here with you know the guy.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah.

Paul Goodman

I think they for dentist shoots and say, all the decisions stop here, right? Like the buck, believe it or not, I think becomes fairly easy to understand. You know, you might not have enough money. You help people with profit, I know, Ann, but I find that like dealing with profitability problems are so much clearer than people problems because profitability problems are predictable, right? You need to bring in more money, spend less money, and while they can be challenging, I think they're just, you know, in an interesting way to me, and kind of fun to tackle.

Rob Montgomery

Well, here's a good example. I mean, you can sort of address a lot of financial profitability problems using AI, right? You can't use AI to deal with another human being, you know, like you can't stand there when you're having problems with the patient. Oh yeah, and say just let me just do a little search here on ChatGPT, and I'll get back to you as to the answer to your question. It's that's so true.

Paul Goodman

What I want to ask you next, Ann, I know you're coming to Super Dentist Boost with Rob, and one of the things I do is I do a pre-boost call with everybody before they come to boost, and I want to do it with you so they know what to deal with and all this stuff. And I had an associate dentist who asked a great question. I said, you know, who can we connect you with when you're there? You know, who can you talk to? He said, I want to know what makes a good culture fit. If I'm an associate, I want to know that I'll be a good culture fit for the practice. As I said, as an employee, and I thought that was a great question. Oh wow, yeah. But I think I said go around and ask the owners, and they're going to come up with what I will describe as gobbly hook nonsense, right? They'll be a team player. Oh, you you know what, Rob, you should be a team player, right? And I said, I mean, I'm using my own example. I said the way I would answer that if you. Me is an example of being a good culture fit. An associate, Pennington Dental Associates, is coming to the office on time. And on time doesn't mean one minute before your first patient. On time in our office means eight a.m. for the morning huddle. So being a good culture fit means coming on time. So even while coming on time is a cliche, I've told them exactly what that means. So that person already knows. Am I the type of person who shows up one minute before the patient? I'm not going to be a good fitness culture. And just so you know, Rob, there's plenty of offices in that one minute before the patient's okay. So I was using that example. Like, what do you think if someone said, "Hey, Doctor Ann, you help dentist, what what makes an good?

Ann Miller

The question I would have though be: Is it the culture of the office? How do they fit into the culture of the office, or how do you know that as an associate, your your morals and values fit with what is there at the office?

Paul Goodman

I think both. I think both. You know, I was saying to him, I don't think many owners will give you an answer that is one that you can digest, right? I think they'll give you a cliche: be a team player, care about other people. When I was saying, like, you know, if you were, you're like, what makes a good culture fit? If you were hiring an associate, Ann, right? Like, what, what, or the people that you work with who are looking for associates?

Rob Montgomery

Well, let me just stop you for a second. I mean, but I think this is what Ann's talking about. I bet the people that can answer that question are the ones that have gone through the process that Ann's talking about, which is they know what their vision is. They've written it down and they've expressed it to their staff. And so when somebody says, "What are you about? Well, that they've already thought about that. They've done that work. That's not most people, though.

Paul Goodman

Right.

Rob Montgomery

So most people, you probably get that gobbleguk answer because that's a somewhat painful question.

Paul Goodman

Right. Yes.

Rob Montgomery

Because, like, what are you? It's a very existential thing. What are you all about? Holy smokes! I don't know. That's brutal, right? So if you're asking the wrong person.

Ann Miller

I've asked a couple of young dentists, "What is your practice philosophy?" And they can't answer. But think about that. What is your practice philosophy? How do you want to treat people?

Rob Montgomery

Yeah.

Ann Miller

So, again, as an associate, you could say, my practice philosophy is this, and ask the dentist or the group, you know, what is your practice philosophy, and do those seem like they'll mesh together? It's not necessarily always just being on time, you know, one minute before, but you're caring, or you know, what is your philosophy to know that the morals and I guess I'm quite big on morals and values, and figure you can fit into a culture if you have similar morals and values.

Paul Goodman

And I like it, Ann and Rob. I'm trying to actually do some real work on this because, you know, dentists love, like, surveys and studies, and I'm just going to use this example at the time of this podcast, through all of my through all of my high-level work on Instagram, Robin and Ann, and the polls and dental nachos, but this is all we have by this, right? So, like, yeah. So, like, I'll go on Instagram and make a poll. I'll go on Facebook. It feels like most associate dentist jobs do not—50% do not last one year. So what we're what we're learning is we're not doing a good job setting these up, right? I mean, you got two professionals who need each other. That's a whole other topic if you need it. But let's just say in this situation they do need an associate, and it's not through lack of patience, although that's a problem. And there are two professionals who went to dental school, Ann, right? Isn't dental school standardized? Don't we all learn the same thing? Of course not, right? But and we're not hitting it out of the park or throwing a Jalen Hurts touchdown on this success. And I think it's a it's a symptom of a lot of challenges that are happening. I don't know what you think, Ann, but, like, when most associates say my first job didn't last over a year or over 50%, I think that's a it's a it's a feedback that doesn't show that owners and associates are getting on the same page. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Ann Miller

Again, I think, wow. I think that some of it is: does the owner really need an associate, or do they want an associate? That's a big question. I agree because many of them, they want one, but they can't. They don't really need one. Owners, I think, typically don't want to be the mentor and to help the person. And new young associates need more of a mentor. Although I known an associate one time that said she knew everything and didn't need anybody. So that was interesting.

Rob Montgomery

How did that work out, Ann?

Ann Miller

I don't think it worked out very well. Again, I think so much of it comes to communication, and it's like dating. We don't we date, but only very shortly, and then we're almost engaged. An associate's just like an engagement, and you got to get to know each other and have conversations. My first associate, I thought I was doing a great job. I gave her her own office, and that we were separated. And so, if she had a patient or didn't have a patient, she was back in her office, and I was in my office, and we rarely talked. And I realized that was my fault. And so the next associate I got, we crammed into my small office together, and we had two computers there, and we each sat there so that in between times we had to talk to each other, you know, because it would be awkward sitting in the room not talking to each other, and it was so much better as an associate doctor relationship that we had more communication, and I think that's a lot of the problem. There's not the communication between the doctors, and it doesn't last.

Rob Montgomery

Some of two is like a size and like a layout too, especially if you're an associate and somebody's hiring you to come and work on days that the owner is not there. Well, then I mean that.

Paul Goodman

Well, that's my number one question for people out of residencies and dental school. I want to have it on the record because it's the record. I want to be an attorney too, Ann, so this is my only record. But I would say when you are a new-ish dentist, the most important question to ask the owner, which hopefully you're asking the owner, but it could be a hiring manager. Hey, I'm just curious. Like, how often will I be the only dentist in this practice? And if you hear quite frequently, do not take the job because you have no idea how many outside the operatory responsibilities you will have as the only dentist in the practice. And if you take someone with very little experience, coupled with now having to make the management decisions. It's disastrous. I did it myself. I'll say my most stressful days as a dentist. We we have a satellite practice, and on Thursdays for about six years, I was the only dentist in that practice on Thursdays, and we did fillings, exams, and crowns. And Rob, that's basic work, but maybe no fillings, exam, and crowns on people who were mostly over the age of 60, and it was the most stressful days I had in dentistry. I had nobody to help me check hygiene. I had nobody to help me with emergency, and I just think hopefully associates are listening. If you are not sure of all your clinical, first of all, you know it's um, it's funny you say. I know I'm ranting it, but people say they want a mentor. I go, it's hard to have a mentor if there is no one else in the building with you, right? Like, where's the mentorship going to come from?

Rob Montgomery

Yeah. Well, Paul, let me ask you this.

Ann Miller

Exactly right. Well, you know, I was actually talking about that with my husband. I was like, you know, maybe I should also market myself as a mentor for associates that are in satellite offices. Somebody that helps them and oversees them, and you know sometimes you just need to ask questions about cases and what should I do in this circumstance and you know, but to me, that also, I mean, I I would love that the owner would take that responsibility and not be an absentee owner. Can't have it always, I guess.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, Paul, like, as part of your your scientific study of doing all these polls on Instagram and Facebook, other than economics, which Ann touched on, which is, you know, the the the practice owner hire an associate

Paul Goodman

Lack of patients, lack of patient volume.

Rob Montgomery

Or probably bad economic expectations too. Other other things that go with that, you know, where I'm going to hire somebody, work less, and make more money. Right? That doesn't. That's not it. What is? Are there certain themes that you have recurring?

Paul Goodman

I love this question, and Ann can chime in too. When I say what made you leave your first associate job, right? Why did you leave your first associate job? I bought my own practice. That's the champion one, right? Or I started my own practice. That's a small percentage.

Rob Montgomery

Right?

Paul Goodman

I didn't have enough patients, which is the economic one, is high. And then also a catch-all of toxic team environment. So, like, toxic team environment, another word for a culture problem, where it could be everything from dental assistants causing them problems, and it could be a two-way street, right? This is but, like, what they feel is team-related challenges. Is the theme of Boost Camp this year for associate owner team harmony. I don't know how you you see this show up in your clients and on either side, but team-related challenges for the associate dentist. Think sometimes not having a dental assistant to not getting confidence with the team to, you know, like you said, the absentee owner thing. So that's the common thing.

Rob Montgomery

I mean, I think, like, if you're looking at an associateship or purchasing a practice, even, and you look and I think, I mean, at first blush, you would think, well, this is a great thing where everybody's been here for 20 years, but that may not be the great thing, right? If you look and, like, it's like trying to walk onto a team where everybody knows all the plays and you don't.

Paul Goodman

And the coach left. I mean, and you did a startup yourself, Ann, and nothing like you. You judged a hand select all of your first team members, I'm assuming when you did your startup,

Ann Miller

I did, and they didn't last super long either. Yeah, because I realized some of it they worked with me in other offices, and they weren't the same person that showed up that I had worked with before.

Rob Montgomery

Why do you think that was?

Ann Miller

Environment. I think the environment changed.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah.

Ann Miller

They were used to the old environment, yeah. And I wasn't duplicating the same environment.

Rob Montgomery

Well, that's a tricky thing with team members. I mean, you're you're the professional, you have the ability to change, and from a clinical standpoint and a management standpoint, but there are a lot of people that just want to do their job the same way they've been doing it forever, and it's very uncomfortable to ask them to do that job differently, whether whether it's right or wrong.

Ann Miller

Yeah, Dr. so and So always did it this way. This is how I do it. Well, that doesn't always work.

Paul Goodman

Ann, a good thing I'd like to talk about for a minute because I was a broker, right? I helped Ann. I now have broker sponsors. You work with people all the time. I actually think the biggest challenge in purchasing an existing practice is you got to kind of. There's no taste testing of the team. There's no working with the team. You have to keep them because here's a good question. Would you rather work with a dental assistant with a bad attitude or no dental assistant at all? I'm taking the bad attitude because I cannot perform the procedure, Rob, in your mouth and get it done right without that, right? So whether we use this example of modern-day AJ Brown on the Eagles, they don't know if they're going to keep them. So I think, Ann, I know we see is like I just think it's so difficult on that practice owner when they inherit a team and have not worked with them in any way, shape, or form.

Ann Miller

I think as a new owner, you have to also expect that that team might not stay with you either. So you need to have your backup squad possibly in the works in case the starters who are there aren't going to wait.

Paul Goodman

I had one. This is a real story. I don't know if she ever listened to the podcast on the show. We purchased a practice in 2011. Made a lot of mistakes before I worked with Rob. A lot of mistakes, but anyway, there was I'd have them. But, um, we had a dental hygienist stand, and Rob, you can listen too, of course. And you're supposed to have your patients wear protective eyewear, glasses, sunglasses, right? Sharp instruments. Of course, they did not do this. So I just said to our hygienist, you know, we we purchase these disposable glasses. We use them at our other practice. They're dark. People don't see the light. We're protecting their eyes, and you can give them to them as a souvenir when they go home. Okay? You would think this was like kind of the most benign thing ever, right? She kind of quit because of that, Ann. Like, like I was like because I made one change, but I had to stand up for their safety, Rob. Like I mean, this is not like I tell owner, I tell associates and owners, like you can't mess around with OSHA or sterilization or safety.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, because you're you're accountable.

Paul Goodman

Like I had a hygienist, and we didn't have a hygienist anymore.

Rob Montgomery

Well, let's the this as you say this. This is I was going to say this before you say this. Now I'm really going to say this. This is the other challenge that we face here in 2026, which is some people refer to as you know the hygiene revolution or existence, that these people in these roles have such leverage that everybody's walking around on eggshells because if this hygienist leaves, there is no plan B, or how much more am I going to have to pay, and can I find somebody? How long is it going to take, and how long will they stay? And and so I think we're probably seeing this even worse now than than ever because that is a whole nother thing out there that people feel like nobody wants to offend them because what if they leave?

Paul Goodman

Because there's such, I mean, Ann, you see this. The position is just highly specialized, right? Like I have dental nachos and dentist job connect. I thought them up in my head. I can actually take people off the street and train them to work with us. This is not the same thing in a dental office.

Rob Montgomery

No,

Ann Miller

But how come we can't make a culture in our practice that people don't want to leave, they don't want to go anywhere else. Why? Why aren't dentists able to do that?

Rob Montgomery

I don't think it's just dentists, honestly. I think we're in a challenging place generally. I think small businesses and all small businesses have that.

Paul Goodman

I like the question. I think in general, if I was to give people feedback, and we don't have a perfect culture now, but we have one where our turnover is not as high anymore. We're very consistent with our expectations, right? There we have after learning the hard way, Rob and Ann. You can't let just one person eat ice cream every day and not the other to use that. That has worked out well, never times. Whether you're dealing with two sisters in the streets of Philadelphia, or you know, so we've just I know we've we've upped our consistency and been willing to lose people over it when it's happened. We have like accountability measures that are objective for them, and I think in general that does attract, like you said. People people who thrive want accountability, and they want to know what's expected of them, and they don't walk into a different office every day. So, I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

Ann Miller

I think that's the key to it. I really do. I think it's setting up the expectations, having accountability. The employees know what's expected of them, and there's no, well, today's Tuesday with the full moon, so she's going to do it this way, and you know tomorrow she'll do it a different way. It's consistent; they know what to do, and you set an environment that they're appreciated. Also, I mean, that doesn't mean you have to kiss everything up and down, but it just means that they realize they're part of the team, and then they're an important part of the team.

Paul Goodman

I actually have a fun question for you, Ann and Rob. Here's so you let's pretend I'm your coaching client, and I'm like, hey, I'm a new practice owner. My practice isn't going out of business, but I want to be more profitable. But I've learned through all these Facebook groups that my team is not, you know, doing a good job, and I'm going to hire you, Ann. Okay, we're going to work together. And this is a question. I say, Ann, I'm ready to have a team meeting. Okay, we've never had a team meeting before, but we're going to have a team meeting on communication, and I'm ready for it. When do you tell your clients to have these team meetings? I think it is so hard to be a dentist when you're seeing patients from nine to six to figure out these training times. So when do you tell your your clients to say you need to have meetings and trainings? When do they fit them into their schedule?

Ann Miller

I did it for I think 18 months. I did it once a week for two hours at lunchtime. I set aside I think it was Tuesdays, from like noon to two, and I paid them and I brought in lunch. Whether I made the lunch myself or we ordered it in from a restaurant, but that's when we did it. So, you know, we took a break from the phones, the patients, and all of that, and I didn't make them do it after hours or come in on their day off, but in the long run, yes, it cost me money because production was down for those hour. I made money in the long run by having a well-run team.

Paul Goodman

I love that answer.

Ann Miller

That's how I would do it. I would tell the person to you schedule it just like you would schedule a crown prep. You put it in.

Paul Goodman

I think that's so wise. I think I've learned the hard way. We've done all the ways, but that's the way to do it. I think Rob, because you cannot expect your team to come in early or stay late, so that you don't like lose production time.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's exactly. I mean, probably starting those meetings at 6 o'clock at night, it was not good for anybody, right?

Ann Miller

No, and it also they have families, and we need to respect that we have time out.

Paul Goodman

I love what you said. You have to schedule like a crown prep. I regret not doing more of that earlier in my ownership journey for weird fears. Oh gosh, we're going to lose hygiene patients. It wasn't even always about money. It was about the schedule. Oh, it's booked out, you know. And I wish I'd done exactly what you had done more consistently.

Ann Miller

You know, it's it's almost just like people and exercising. You've got to schedule your time to go and exercise and to work out, and you got to schedule those meetings because that's the health of your practice is the team building and the team communication.

Paul Goodman

I mean, Rob's up at four a.m. every day, and now I'm an early bird person. I don't know what happened to me, Rob, but since we started the podcast, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed always. But, like, I also feel now while there are a young practice owner can be 34, 35, 32, you know, but, like, the I'm just saying, like, most of your team is not living the same life you are, so they are not just like part of the 5 a.m. club to come in on the other side, Rob, and say, "Get up and file. Who's taking the kids to school? Who's doing this?" And also, Rob said, your energy's not right for that anyway, right? 6 o'clock at night, 5 o'clock in the morning. It's got to be done during business hours that I like that, Ann. Buy lunch, pay, and then I find that more consistent meetings in any organization is a great retention tool because it gives people the opportunity to let their voice be heard. You know, like it's like voice being heard doesn't mean you do everything your team says, but at least they get the opportunity to share. And I learned something, and whether it's in my nachos company or offices, I'm like, wow. Sometimes, wow, I didn't know that was happening here. Thanks for telling me.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, it's good to get feedback.

Paul Goodman

You know, so I like that.

Rob Montgomery

Ann, this has been awesome, and I think you've got some great words of wisdom for for dentists out there and young dentists especially that are associates and getting ready to transition into practice ownership, and if people want to get in contact with you or find out more about the Dental Wayfinder, how would they be able to do that?

Ann Miller

Well, I have a website. It's [www.dentalwayfinder.com](http://www.dentalwayfinder.com), and all my information is on there. But you can also feel free to call or text me. I'm going to give out my cell number, 717-491-3916, and either way are great ways to get a hold of me.

Rob Montgomery

And as always, that information will be up in the show notes. And I thought that was interesting. Before we jumped on, you told me maybe Paul already knew what the origin was of the Dental Wayfinder. So, if you could just, as we wrap up, tell our audience where you got that from.

Ann Miller

Yeah. So, a wayfinder is from the Polynesian culture, and if you've ever seen the movie Moana, there was a wayfinder. They are the people who help you voyage from island to island, and at the time they didn't have you know the modern technologies of a map or a compass and or navigation system, and they would use the stars and the moon and the waves to figure out the journey. And my viewpoint is there's not a right way or a wrong way to run a dental practice. Every practice is different, and there's not a cookie cutter way to do it. So I want to be your wayfinder to help you figure out the journey that you want to take your practice, and we'll develop the ways to do it as we go along. So I want to be the wayfinder, not just a consultant.

Rob Montgomery

Good stuff, Dr. Ann Miller.

Paul Goodman

I'm a huge Polynesian fan in Disney World, so I love all of this. Moana, Polynesian, Wayfinder, everything.

Rob Montgomery

Dental consulting. You like it all, Paul.

Paul Goodman

I love this. Thanks, Ann, so much for being.

Rob Montgomery

And thank you so much for taking the time.

Ann Miller

Thank you all for having me. I appreciate it.

Rob Montgomery

Good wisdom there from Dr. Ann Miller.

Paul Goodman

Yeah, I mean, it just shows you that the challenges dentists face are not new at all. Even though there's a whole new world of dentisting, as I say, out there, they're the same things of being with your team every day, communicating, managing challenges. And I think the take-home is just get someone in your corner who can help you.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, yeah, and I think great words of advice. And frankly, I think this is one of the better episodes we've had to say, hey, you're a young associate, or you're about to graduate dental school. Here's here's some stuff to think about. I think Ann's really has some some awesome ideas with that. I also found that it's interesting because I really hadn't thought about this in these terms when she's talking about plan on replacing the team after you purchase a practice. I think a lot of times people buy the practice and just assume that

Paul Goodman

Yeah, that's great advice. Yeah,

Rob Montgomery

everything's going to just keep continue. We're going to have the same people. You may not want the same people, but you know, and maybe, and obviously, we're not going to tell people change the change the team a week after you buy the practice. But probably be mentally nimble, open to the idea that that they're not going to be around.

Paul Goodman

Some things happen outside of your control, right? You know, someone stays for a week and then says, "I've found another job or done this, so you're going to be ready to replace and respond. So that's great advice.

Rob Montgomery

Yeah, for sure. As always, thanks for listening, everybody.

Paul Goodman

Thanks, Rob.

Bumper  

Thanks for listening to another great podcast with the Dental Amigos. And don't forget to tune in next time to have the dental business demystified. If you're looking for more information about today's podcast, you can find it on the dental amigos.com if you're looking for Paul, you can find Paul at drpaulgoodman.com and if you're looking for Rob, you can find him at yourdentallawyer.com This podcast has been sponsored by Orange Line Media Group, helping dentists and other professionals create content people love. Find out how we can help you take your business to the next level at www.orangelinemg.com. Till next time.

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